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I wanted to say thank you for your web page and letter. After reading it, I realized I have gone through many of your symptoms. I was hoping I could get some advice from you though on a few things:
1.) I think I may be gay, I don't want to be though, I'm 18. Guys' physiques turn me on, but the thought of actual sex with one doesn't exactly thrill me. But, the thought of sex with a women doesn't exactly gross me out. Infact, I have enjoyed seeing some "adult" oriented pictures of men and women together.
2.) I'm a senior in h.s. about to graduate in a very rural-hickish area that is strictly opposed to "this kind of thing" There have been past gays who've been came out, and the jokes and abuse they put up with was horrible. Beginning my freshman year, people thought I was gay, and walking to school EVERYDAY! I had to face this group of 7-8 boys throwing snowballs or rocks at my neck and face from point-blank. What was I to do. 1 : 8 doesn't exactly favor me. But anyway, you see, I rarely feel anything for guys, but there is this exception. He is the quarter-back, star b-ball player, and a track star. He has never taken part in bashing me, Infact, in any situation, he has been nice to me. But he has only been nice when he wanted something like an assignment. I REALLY like him. How would/or even should I go about approaching him? I've thought about an anonymous letter, and asking him to leave a sign on his car, or locker, or wear a green shirt to school on a certain day if he's interested. But he also has a girlfriend----so do I. I'm so confused.
Thanks for your time.
1.) That's normal... the part about the physical features of a guy turning you on, but not exactly being too keen on the idea of sex with a guy. And it's that way for several reasons; most importantly, "because that's what you've been told since you were born".
Now, I may be a little overaware of what society does because I'm a communication major (and most of my classes revolve around how communication shapes us. *grin*) But think about it, from day one, you've been told that sex between two guys is bad... and from day one, you've also heard the women in your lives, on talk shows, in movies, etc. etc. talk about how guy's bodies look really good.
So, from day one, you've heard, and consequently made a part of yourself, the idea that sex between guys is bad and appreciation of a guy's body is ok, especially for women. In other words, you've been told that sex between guys is bad, probably to a worse degree than even things like murder, and all that talk consequently makes you think that way. It's subconscious, but that's the way it works (trust me, I'm in year four of studying this kinda stuff)... and on the other hand, you've heard people (almost exclusively women) talk about how guy's bodies are nice, and no one ever reprimanded them for it, and no one ever talked about how horrible it was that a guy thought another guy's body was nice. In some areas, like sports (i.e. wrestling, bodybuilding, football), appreciation for another guy's body is even the norm.
So, you think sex between two guys is majorly bad and an appreciation of a guy's physique is ok. I'm 23 and have been fully out since I left for college, at your age, and I still have those thoughts. They're not easy to get rid of. I mean, I know you can identify with me here; I'd much prefer to look at pictures of naked guys alone, or simply caressing, than to look at a picture of two guys having sex. Part of me KNOWS that that's because that the way I've been brought up, but that's the way it is nevertheless. I do, on the other hand, know that the feeling of a guy wrapped up around me or me wrapped up around him is pretty much near perfect. It just feels so right that you know no matter what anyone could possibly say, it IS right.
Answer me this question, when you last saw some "adult" oriented pictures of men and women together and enjoyed it, did you actively seek out the guy's member? It's ok, dude. It's perfectly fine. Trust me. I know, I'm living proof. I'm pretty much perfectly normal and I just happen to be gay. I like masculine things, I'm not limp wristed, and I don't wear dresses... and I've met more than a couple of gay guys who are active mechanics, even. Take David, for example, he's about as masculine as they come, is currently raising his truck bed, and he's gay. I mean, look, does he look like a gay guy? http://www.koool.com/life/details/david.jpg And while the most visible of the gay guys may be the feminine, there are LOTS of other masculine gay guys out there. They just don't catch your attention... because they're normal.
2.) I know exactly what you mean. There was this guy who was in the class (senior/junior) before mine. I was terrified that I would be associated with Joey... because everyone made fun of him and we all knew that was how gay guys were, effeminate and a sissy, like him. I knew that I wasn't like that, but I figured that we'd be like two black kids in an all white school. I'd immediately be associated with him, if not semi-forced to socialize with him. But I DID NOT want that. I'm sure Joey put up with a horrendous amount of crap. I'm sure every day he went home and hated himself a little more... but it would have hurt me so badly to be associated with him. I couldn't even risk it.
Ironically, my freshman year was also met with talk that I was gay. In particular, there were these two seniors in one of my classes who constantly ridiculed me. In much the same way that I didn't want to be associated with Joey, I didn't want to be associated with them. They were gay. They were weird. They didn't fit in... and the only thing specific I remember them saying to me was that I should band with them, because we were in the same boat. I can picture their faces and the setting in which I heard that as clearly as though it were last week. So, yeah, I had that he's a freshman and he's gay thing, too. And during the entire four years of high school there was talk about who was gay and who wasn't. Brandon was gay. Jarrod was gay. George was gay. Shane was gay. The list went on and on... and off.
So, while I didn't have to combat snowballs, I did get a dose of pain inducing ridicule from a few people... and the reason it hurt was because I thought I really was like them. I thought there were no normal gay people in the world. I thought they all were horrible people and I knew I had nothing in common with them, but I knew I would be associated with them. So, yeah, I know EXACTLY where you're coming from, and all I can tell you is that you'll be amazed looking back, even this fall, when you enter college. You'll be amazed at how different an atmosphere it is... and you'll be amazed to hear the stories of who got married and who came out, all within the time you graduated in May to the time you go home for Christmas vacation.
That said, I can almost guarantee you that the object of your affection is not gay. My all around great guy was named Aaron... he was the sweetest guy, about 6'3" and very attractive. I mean, there were a couple of other guys I lusted over, like David, but David was a bad boy, Christian Slater type, and he had a lot of girlfriends. Aaron had a girlfriend here and there, but there was a wholesomeness about him, that you just knew he would never be doing anything like having sex with a girl. And so, like you, I figured that maybe, just maybe, he might like guys, too, but because he grew up in Kentucky (like me), there was no way that he was going to let that fact be known.
I, too, thought of various ways that I could see if Aaron and David were interested. My straight friend Scott, to whom I was out and who is now married with two children, encouraged me to somehow let David know that I thought he was attractive... I never did, but writing it here now, it's amazing how vividly I remember those thoughts of five years ago. We were in senior English and David was in the class as well. He was SOOOO cute and had such a bad boy smile. You would melt. *grin*
But, neither David or Aaron turned out to be gay, and I don't think they ever were. But I completely understand where you're coming from. He's not like the other guys; he seems to care a little more; he seems to be so much nicer... but nice straight guys exist, too.
Now, on the subject of you having a girlfriend and the guy you like having one as well, I don't know what to tell you except to say that it's a danger to think that he might be dating a girl in the same way that you are. As much as I'd really like to tell you that there's a high probability that he's gay, I can't. Unless you have some super mega clue, like he's talked about appreciating guy's physiques with you, it's probably a lot of wishful thinking.
Now please, don't be downhearted. You're e-mail seems like it's from a REALLY intelligent guy, one who I'm almost certain is going off to college in some big far off city. When you get there, you'll be amazed at how free you are to be whomever you want. I became "Justin" from "Clay" (my middle name) and I pretty much told everyone that I met that I was gay within the first day or so of meeting them. I didn't introduce myself that way, but somehow we got around to the subject and I told the truth. I know it seems hard to imagine a place like that now, but trust me, it exists.
So, what I'd like from you now is you're name. It doesn't have to be your whole name, but your honest to goodness real first name. I've bared myself here for you, now you do me the courtesy of knowing at least the name of the person I'm talking to. And, I'll be honest, by telling me you're name, you're making that first step to accepting yourself. It's not "admitting that you gay" but it is admitting to me and to yourself that it's definitely a possibility.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Justin
God damnit!!!! I do NOT WANT TO BE GAY!!! I WOULD DIE TO BE STRAIGHT, I LOOK FOR EVEN THE SLIGHTEST GLIMMER OF STRAIGHTNESS AND I HANG ON TO IT WITH EVERYTHING I'VE GOT, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK!!!! I DONT' WANT TO BE GAY! I CAN'T. MY MOM AND DAD WOULD RIDICULE ME---YOU SHOULD HEAR THE GAY JOKES THEY TELL, MY GRANDPARENS WOULD DISOWN ME---I'M SURE ABOUT THAT! although my sister would take it okay. ALL DAY TODAY I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR YOUR RESPONSE. My name is _ _ _ _. (You and I know that there's no way that anyone he would ever know would connect his name to him from reading it here, but I've gotta respect his mindset.)
It is a definite possibility. I wish there was a way of 'converting.' You're absolutely right about being filled with propaganda against homosexuals. All day today I would pass the "object of my affection," and look for some spark to exist; none was there. It was so cool,the other day in the computer lab, he asked for my help in english and I had to go right by him, it was so hard not to keep my hands from shaking; like they are now....from finally admitting to another human my feelings. I don't want that life. I want a white house with a picket fence, a wife, and kids. But how. With guys having sex, i really don't care about the moral issue, it's just the thought of having anal sex. I consider that almost disgusting, yet I have fanasized about him this way before. As for the adult oriented material, yes, you're right again, I have to see 'all' of the guy for it to turn me on. Why me? Why would God choose me to be gay? Why would he want me to suffer? I've heard talk of how homosexuality is a 'chemical imbalance,' or recently in [somewhere] (i'm from somewhere rural here though) they had a group claim in the state newspaper that they could convert gays. More than likely, they gay person suffered from a lack of a father and fatherly guidance. Maybe that's it. My dad is gone an awful lot, and my dad loves sports, I love RENT. He loves to hunt, I like chemistry. This is all just spuradic thought of finally being able to tall another human being about myself. Does it even make any sense? With college, you're right again, I wanted to apply to Washington U in D.C., or NYU; but my mom convinced me it was too far away. Now i'm either going to a somewhat big city; not quite a million, but a small college, or a medium in a large city....the Twin Cities.
I've been so worried and have been thinking constantly about my life and who i am. I can't sleep, it feels like I have an ulcer, and I'm constantly worrying and trying to figure a way out as to how to get over 'it.' Typing this is like a paradox, I can't trust my supposed good friends with this, but i can trust a stranger and it ends up feeling like 2 different realities merging, crashing head on. Questions are randomly coming to my head and i'm asking you, a total stranger!!! Also,i'm a very strict Roman Catholic and very active in our church, I've been bombarded with gay, okay, gaysex=hell. I also think to myself, maybe this danny thing is just a phase. I'll grow out of it. A few months ago...in aug. there was this guy i new pretty well, hot as hell....water skiier. I almost grew obsesses about him. But in the end, i ended up being friends and am longer attracted to him.
in 7 months i'll be in a bigger city. We'll see i guess. Also, maybe a fact is, I have No guy friends, they are all girls. I speak to some guys and am friends with them, but we don't hang out; i'm against drinking, sex, and drugs. Also, are guy-curriculum is strictly sports; and i'm what some would describe as going through a transition from preppy to alternative.
Thank you so much for your time!!!
I also apologize for the informal structure of this letter along with the ramblings, you are the first person I've ever talked to about it.
Thank you, I would tell you how much it means to me, but I have this feeling you know.
_ _ _ _
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© 1999 Justin Clouse
January 20, 1999 - Wednesday
4:56PMJanuary 24, 1999 - Sunday
12:22PM
Dynamic Fonts look much better in Netscape than in Internet Explorer, but the better look also takes more machine power. If you want to see the font and your computer is giving you problems viewing it in Netscape, try Internet Explorer if that's an option.
Of course, now the font is a little on the large side, but I'll see what I can do about that.January 25, 1999 - Monday
12:17PMJanuary 26, 1999 - Tuesday
8:27PM
---- In Part ----
ok one last thought. you've mentioned you matured a lot. i'd agree. i can see it in your attitude/analysis of things... and yet i don't really know you. i don't really know how to say this. you know, from time to time, i can get on my soapbox and ramble on for-fucking-ever (like right now). here goes. i'd just like to see you comment once in a while about gay issues in general or events affecting gay people at large. you know... a bit more of the activist thing. gawd, i hope this doesn't piss you off... i value our cyberfriendship too much for that. i can't stand preachy people so i don't want to come off that way. it's just that, well, i think you're in such an influential position especially among younger gay adults that you might be able to influence some to become more actively involved in gay issues. i've deeply admired the way you've repeatedly encouraged those on the fence to come out. you and i know that 98% of them will be better off for it. but there are lots of issues that need our attention. i don't recall you having mentioned the matthew shepard murder [in the newsletter]. you may have and i missed it (of course there was almost an over abundance of publicity). like others, that incident upset me to no fucking end. i know there are lots of other outlets for glb's to get involved but among those in their 20s it just doesn't seem to be a high priority. anyway, just my thoughts. January 29, 1999 - Friday
1:43PM
Subject: hello
Dude,
First of all thank you for the response! January 31, 1999 - Sunday
12:15PM
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